Across the country, communities are increasingly pushing back against large-scale industrial projects — from fracking wells to data centers — forcing a reckoning with a question as old as industrialization itself: who bears the costs of progress, and who gets to decide. In a conversation hosted by NPR, environmentalist Bill McKibben and industry PR specialist Frank Maisano gave voice to two coherent but incompatible worldviews, each grounded in genuine concern for human welfare. The exchange illuminates a tension that no single policy or agreement has yet resolved — between the energy demands