On a November morning after the midterms returned both chambers of Congress to Democratic hands, Sen. Bernie Sanders sat with MS NOW host Chris Hayes and declined to close the door on an old dream: a single national health program that would cover everyone. Hayes met that hope with skepticism, pointing to the hurdles of the House, the Senate, and a president unlikely to sign such a law. Sanders answered not with a forecast but with a question about what Congress owes the public, and whether it should act even when the outcome is uncertain. The exchange lands in a long American argument over wh
Sanders Says He Is 'Not Absolutely Certain' Trump Would Veto Medicare-for-All, Calls Him 'a Good Politician'
"A bit crazy, but he is not stupid" — Sanders on Trump
Mark
What did Sanders actually say that made this a story?
Mimi
He wouldn't rule out Trump signing Medicare-for-all. He said he wasn't absolutely certain Trump would reject it, and called him a good politician who might ask what he has to lose.
Mark
And Hayes wasn't buying it?
Mimi
Hayes called the odds of a signature pretty small and pointed to the House and Senate. Sanders cut in and said the point is to pass the bill either way.
Luke
Worth separating what's established. The 60 percent figure and the 80-90 percent among Democrats are Sanders's own numbers in the interview. Hayes agreed polling has risen, but didn't confirm those figures.
Mark
So what's Sanders's strategy if a veto comes?
Mimi
Put it on Republicans. If Trump vetoes and they sustain it, he says that's their responsibility and voters will see it.
Luke
Notice that's a political argument, not a prediction. He said he's not certain about a signature, which is a long way from saying he expects one.
Mark
What about the psychotherapist's take?
Mimi
Jonathan Alpert said Sanders is flattering Trump's ego to dangle a victory. That's his interpretation of motive.
Luke
Right, and Sanders never said that's what he was doing. Alpert is reading intent from outside, and the White House hadn't responded when the piece ran.
Mark
Anything unknown about what comes next?
Mimi
Whether a bill actually moves in the new Congress, and what Republicans do with it.
Le Pouls
- Sanders refuses to rule out a Trump signature, insisting he is 'not absolutely certain' the president would reject Medicare-for-all.
- Host Chris Hayes pushes back sharply, calling the odds of signing 'pretty small' and naming the House and Senate as barriers.
- Democrats' midterm wins restore their control of both chambers, giving the push fresh momentum and fresh scrutiny.
- Sanders argues Congress should pass the bill anyway, forcing Republicans to sustain any veto in full view of voters.
- Critic Jonathan Alpert calls the remarks flattery aimed at Trump's ego, while the White House has yet to comment.
- The next test is whether the new Congress actually moves a bill, and how Republicans answer it.
On a November morning after the midterms returned both chambers of Congress to Democratic hands, Sen. Bernie Sanders sat with MS NOW host Chris Hayes and declined to close the door on an old dream: a single national health program that would cover everyone. Hayes met that hope with skepticism, pointing to the hurdles of the House, the Senate, and a president unlikely to sign such a law. Sanders answered not with a forecast but with a question about what Congress owes the public, and whether it should act even when the outcome is uncertain. The exchange lands in a long American argument over whether healthcare is a right or a market good, and whether politics is ready to settle it.
On Thursday, Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont sat down with MS NOW host Chris Hayes and was asked the question that hangs over every Medicare-for-all campaign: could it ever become law? Sanders would not rule it out. He said he was not "absolutely certain" President Donald Trump would reject it, and he described the president as a man who may be a bit crazy but is not stupid, a good politician who would look across a country that sees its health system as broken and ask what he has to lose.
Sanders grounded his case in familiar terms. Healthcare, he said, is a human right, and Medicare-for-all now has the backing of more than 60 percent of Americans, and probably 80 to 90 percent of Democrats by his own estimate. Hayes agreed that support has grown, but he doubted the bill's odds, pointing to the hurdles in the House and Senate and saying the chances of Trump signing it were very small.
Sanders pushed back on the substance of the question. Trump has the constitutional power to veto, he said, but Congress has the power to represent the public and pass the bill, and to show voters that lawmakers are tired of defending a broken system. The outcome, in his view, is not the point. If Republicans sustain a veto, that responsibility belongs to them, and Americans will see it.
The conversation came just after Democrats won back both the House and the Senate in Tuesday's midterms, a shift that gives the idea new weight. Fox News Digital reached out to critics as well. Psychotherapist Jonathan Alpert said Sanders has been giving the same speech for decades and was appealing to Trump's ego by dangling a historic victory. The White House has not yet responded. What comes next is whether the new Congress moves a Medicare-for-all bill at all, and how Republicans respond if it does.
On Thursday, in an interview with MS NOW host Chris Hayes, Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont was asked about the odds of Medicare-for-all becoming law. He answered by declining to rule out that President Donald Trump might sign it. He said he was not "absolutely certain" Trump would reject the legislation.
Sanders opened with his familiar framing. Healthcare, he said, is a human right, and Medicare-for-all is now backed by more than 60 percent of Americans and, in his estimate, probably 80 to 90 percent of Democrats. Those figures were his own characterization during the interview.
Hayes cut in. He said he had looked at the polling and agreed that support for Medicare-for-all has risen. He also noted that Abdul El-Sayed had been attacked on many fronts in his race, but not on that issue. Then he put his doubt plainly: he and Sanders would probably agree that the chances of Trump signing such a bill were pretty small, and Hayes pointed to the House and Senate as hurdles.
Sanders interrupted back, asking Hayes to hold on, and made two points. First, he said, Trump has the constitutional right to veto, but Congress has the constitutional right to represent the public and pass the bill, and to show Americans that lawmakers are tired of maintaining a broken system.
Second, he said Trump "may be a bit crazy, but he is not stupid," and called him a good politician. Sanders imagined the president looking across the country, seeing that people widely regard the system as broken, and asking himself what he has to lose. For that reason, Sanders said, he could not be absolutely certain Trump would refuse to sign it.
Sanders added that the outcome was not the point of the exercise. Congress's job, he said, is to produce the bill. If Trump vetoes it and Republicans vote to sustain the veto, that is their responsibility, and Americans will see it.
The exchange followed Democrats' big wins in Tuesday's midterms, in which the party won back both the House and the Senate. Sanders has pushed Medicare-for-all for years, and the idea has moved closer to the center of the Democratic Party.
Fox News Digital sought reaction from psychotherapist and author Jonathan Alpert, who said in a statement that Sanders has been "giving the same speech for decades." Alpert said Sanders knows how to tap into people's frustrations, but that calling healthcare a human right does not automatically make Medicare-for-all the answer. He called the Trump remarks quite a compliment from someone who has spent years attacking the president, and argued that Sanders was appealing to Trump's ego by dangling a historic victory. Fox News Digital also reached out to the White House for comment.
What to watch now is whether the new Democratic Congress actually advances a Medicare-for-all bill, and how Republicans respond, since sustaining a veto would fall to them.
Citations marquantes
I am not absolutely certain that Trump would not sign it.— Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt.
Calling health care a human right doesn't automatically make Medicare-for-all the answer.— Jonathan Alpert, psychotherapist and author
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